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Forum:Second Chamber
__NEWSECTIONLINK__ Category:ForumCategory:Congress The Second Chamber is one of the two chambers of the Lovian Congress, the federal legislative branch. Unlike in other nations, the lower chamber serves as a room for debating and compromising, and the higher chamber is where Members of the Congress vote bills that have passed through the First Chamber. All inhabitants are allowed entry to the Congress, though only Members of the Congress have the right to actively participate and vote. Older proposals 004. Sports and National Team Act #Lovian boules is recognized as the national sport of Lovia. ##Congress hereby commits itself to protect the sport and its culture as national heritage. #A national sports team is a team that performs a single sport at a high level and represents Lovia during international contests, championships and friendly games. ##Congress can grant a sports team this title and duty by a normal majority. ##The ownership of a national sports team remains with its original proprietor. ##Congress will provide in a part of the expenses of this team to guarantee regular practice and performance. ##Congress may revoke this grant by a normal majority when the team does not represent Lovia correctly, with dignity and without wrongful conduct. ##Congress bars players who abuse narcotics, or any other substance that illegally improves a player's game, or have abused narcotics in the past twelve months from participating in a national sports team. ###Drugs that are prescribed by a fully qualified doctor of medicine may be used. ####At all times, other doctors of medicine may question the prescription and file for re-examination. If two other fully qualified medical professionals find the prescription unnecessary or harmful and therefore illegal, the sportsperson may no longer use the prescribed drugs. #Non-governmental governing bodies in Lovian sports may bar players from playing: ##On reasonable suspicion of drug abuse; ##On ethical grounds, that is when a player acts not appropriately and without dignity, or when he or she has violated the law. #Minors, that is people who have not yet reached the age of eighteen, must be a member of a sports player's union to protect them from wrongful conduct. #Minors may not participate in outside physical training or games when the outside temperature is below 10 degrees Celsius (50°F) or above 35 degrees Celsius (95°F), nor may they participate in inside physical training or games when the temperature in the specific room is below 15 degrees Celsius (59°F) or above 30 degrees Celsius (86°F). #Minors may not accept financial payment for sports achievements. Voting Pro # Marcus Villanova WLP 21:09, August 30, 2010 (UTC) # Martha Van Ghent 07:10, August 31, 2010 (UTC) # I largely agree with Jon but am willing to vote pro. After all we need to start somewhere. 07:14, August 31, 2010 (UTC) #:Shouldn't we choose BOWLING Jon THE DUDE Johnson 09:33, August 31, 2010 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:36, September 1, 2010 (UTC) I agree with Youri... # 12:58, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # The protection policies for minors are very valuable. -- 14:20, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # 17:45, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # 10:45, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # ... Contra # I don't support state-appointed national sport teams. Percival E. Galahad 10:40, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # sport clubs should be able to assure their own future. Harold Freeman 07:43, September 3, 2010 (UTC) ## What? Did you read the bill? Marcus Villanova WLP 18:50, September 3, 2010 (UTC) ## I mean c'mon did you even read the bill? Your reason for voting contra is very foolish, becuase it does exactly that. It sponsers sport and helps it grow in Lovia! Marcus Villanova WLP 18:52, September 3, 2010 (UTC) # ... Abstain # , sorry man, but i think all sports are equal, you can't just choose one to protect, no offence, i think we need more laws of this kind, so i don't vote contra Jon THE DUDE Johnson 21:26, August 30, 2010 (UTC) ## So don't vote pro, Boules is a significant game! It need to be embelished, As active chairmen of TL I protected all sports and reborned sport in Lovia! Marcus Villanova WLP 16:22, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # Comments Is this approved yet? It has eight vote Pro and three against. If people don't vote there vote doesn't count. It has at least 50% so? Marcus Villanova Walden 17:53, September 18, 2010 (UTC) 005. Recognition of the existing localities A while ago, the PM made a poll about which new places we should keep. Most of the voters thought Portland and Novosevensk were okay; many didn't find Plains worth keeping. We must bear in mind that we cannot keep building. We are a small archipelago that is not densely populated. So. Proposed recognition I hereby propose the following: :Congress recognizes all the following localities as cities, under the Lovian law: ::Newhaven and Noble City :Congress recognizes all the following localities as towns, under the Lovian law: ::Kinley, Hurbanova, Portland, Sofasi and Train Village :Congress recognizes all the following localities as hamlets, under the Lovian law: ::Adoha, Beaverwick, Clave Rock, East Hills and Novosevensk :Congress recognizes all the following localities as neighborhoods, under the Lovian law: ::Abby Springs, Artista, Bayfield, Bayside, Citizen Corner, Drake Town, Downtown NC, Downtown HU, Downtown KY, Downtown SO, Hightech Valley, Hurket-on-Kings, Industrial Park, King's Gardens, Little Europe, Little Frisco, Long Road, Malipa, Mandarin Village, Millstreet, Newhaven (neighborhood), New Town, Old Harbor, Old Port, Pines, The Mall, Trading Quarter, Transcity As a result hereof, these localities will enjoy the rights described in the Federal Law and Constitution. All other "localities", which are not recognized by Congress, will have no such rights, and will be subject to removal. Voting This bill will not be in the Federal Law; it's just to make sure that Congress has full power over its towns and so. Martha Van Ghent 14:20, August 25, 2010 (UTC) PRO # Martha Van Ghent 08:37, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # Jon THE DUDE Johnson 09:04, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12:36, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # 12:59, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # -- 14:20, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # Now let's get those other bills into congress and have some state elections! Marcus Villanova WLP 16:23, September 1, 2010 (UTC) # 06:36, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # Percival E. Galahad 10:41, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # Bucu 16:03, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # Harold Freeman 07:43, September 3, 2010 (UTC) #: We have our majority. I consider this bill approved. Please keep voting though =)) Martha Van Ghent 09:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC) # 17:47, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # ... CONTRA ABSTENTION like Martha already pointed out. 08:48, September 5, 2010 (UTC) 006. State Elections According to the latest reform: * During a period of two weeks, any Lovian citizen and resident of the state can become a candidate in the State Elections. This period begins exactly one month before the day of the inauguration of the Governor and Deputy Governor. * During a period of two weeks, any Lovian citizen can cast his or her vote in favor of a candidate in the State Elections of the state of which he or she is an official resident. Because the majority of the Lovians prefers October as election month, and a minority wants September, we could do it like this: * 20th September - 3rd October: Candidacies * 4th October - 17th October: Elections * 18th October: Inauguration of the Governors and Deputy Governors I'll ask Congress to vote on this proposal. But we also need to solve two more things before the candidacy period: # we need to settle the number of residences each citizen has. We need to count them and make sure nobody has more than legally allowed. # we need to register these residences in the "citizen book" so we know who can be a candidate in which state and who can vote in which state. This is very important. Martha Van Ghent 08:47, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Citizen residences count If we want this huge work to get done, we better start now. I'll list up all citizens and their residences. When I find citizens with more residences than allowed, I'll send a message to him. I will propose a bill to Congress to change the legal number of residence. I hope to do this before the counting really starts and all that. Please react fast. Martha Van Ghent 12:44, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Voting We're voting to hold the State Elections at the dates mentioned above. A normal majority. PRO # Martha Van Ghent 14:52, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # 17:13, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # -- 21:04, September 2, 2010 (UTC): Mr. Latin is actually right. I hereby give my full support to a version of this bill that features a later inauguration date to fit the legal requirements. # JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 21:12, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # Marcus Villanova WLP 22:55, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # 06:38, September 3, 2010 (UTC) # Harold Freeman 07:44, September 3, 2010 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17:59, September 3, 2010 (UTC) # Percival E. Galahad 09:39, September 4, 2010 (UTC) #: We have our majority here too. I propose we change the Inauguration date to fit the legal thingies, like the king said. I suppose that's fine with y'all? Please keep voting; Martha Van Ghent 09:50, September 4, 2010 (UTC) # 17:47, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # ... CONTRA ABSTENTION # I'm pro, but I feel the necessity to mierenneuk : This period begins exactly one month before the day of the inauguration of the Governor and Deputy Governor. ''--Bucu 17:37, September 2, 2010 (UTC) by a normal majority! 08:46, September 5, 2010 (UTC) 007. Amendment (Art.2): fixed (3) legal residences for all Currently: * inhabitants have 1 residence * citizens can have 2 residences * MOTCs can have 3 * the King and the PM can have 4 This reflects a strange sort of hierarchy, and I don't like that. So this is what I propose: * ''inhabitants may have 1 residence in Lovia * citizens may have maximum 3 residences in Lovia There would be no difference between the King, the PM, the MOTCs or the citizens. In law, this would result in this Article 2 of the Const.: :Art. 2 :2. Every Lovian citizen has the right: ::1. To have a number of residences in Lovia, but no more than three. ::2. To participate in federal and state politics and to be a candidate in any Lovian election, unless he or she does not meet the requirements. Art. 2.3 and 2.4 are deleted then. Martha Van Ghent 12:50, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Voting This bill needs a two thirds majority to pass. It is a Constitutional amendment. Martha Van Ghent 14:52, September 2, 2010 (UTC) PRO # Martha Van Ghent 14:52, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # Bucu 16:04, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # 17:13, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # -- 21:04, September 2, 2010 (UTC): A necessary yet simple improvement. # Good work again martha JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 21:14, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # Very Good! Marcus Villanova WLP 23:48, September 2, 2010 (UTC) # 06:40, September 3, 2010 (UTC) # Harold Freeman 07:44, September 3, 2010 (UTC) # Equality is a necessity in society. Percival E. Galahad 09:40, September 4, 2010 (UTC) # SjorskingmaWikistad 10:09, September 4, 2010 (UTC) # 17:48, September 5, 2010 (UTC) you rock martha! # 10:46, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # ... CONTRA # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC) #: Why? (if i may ask) JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 18:02, September 3, 2010 (UTC) #::There's nothing wrong with the original text. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 07:45, September 4, 2010 (UTC) ABSTENTION # ... Any MOTC can approve a bill so let's be happy I hope Yuri will add this to FedLaw! Marcus Villanova 20:39, September 28, 2010 (UTC) 002. Act on the Fight Against Poverty # To fight poverty among the inhabitants of Lovia the Board on the Fight Against Poverty (BFAP) is erected under the Act on the Fight Against Poverty, supported by Congress and the Department of Welfare. ## The composition of the board is as follows: the Secretary of Welfare, three Lovian citizens appointed by the Secretary of Welfare, and the Prime Minister. ## The board will perform the following tasks: ### The evaluation and financial support of (voluntary) organizations that aid the poor in Lovia; ### The creation and management of facilities to give shelter and food to the homeless in Lovia; ### The creation and management of a Center for Societal Welfare (CSW) in Lovia. #### The CSW may grant payments to the poor in exchange for supervision. #### The CSW may appoint social residences with low rent to people in need. ## The board will work together closely with other initiatives that fight poverty, both private and public. # The Department of Culture, Heritage and Education will foresee a Learning Point. ## The Learning Point offers cheap basic education according to the low doorstep principle. ## The Learning Point will focus on guiding Lovians who have not received proper and full education. ## The Learning Point may be an instrument for the CWS to aid its people. Voting This bill needs a 50% majority to pass. Please vote. 08:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC) PRO # 08:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # 12:43, September 5, 2010 (UTC) The bill leaves a lot of space for interpretation, I think. How will these CSW work, be governed? What can they do, what can't they? Dubious, perhaps. Nevertheless, we need social security and this is a good first step. I have faith in the Sec of Welfare. 12:43, September 5, 2010 (UTC) #:It is just like the Beglian OCMW: a center that aids and supports the poor. As you can see the program focusses on a stronger integration and on breaking the 'circle of poverty'. 14:45, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # fits in the new walden manifesto. 17:43, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:23, September 6, 2010 (UTC) # Harold Freeman 14:03, September 7, 2010 (UTC) # Marcus Villanova Walden 20:34, September 10, 2010 (UTC) # 10:47, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # I really don't see how this could be bad, and potential good is obvious. Edward Hannis 00:05, September 29, 2010 (UTC) # -- 17:44, October 1, 2010 (UTC) # ... CONTRA # ... ABSTENTION # Dimi's right. I like the idea but. Marcus Villanova WLP 14:11, September 5, 2010 (UTC) #:If it assures you: they just get a minimum wage and some social assistance. What isn't said, isn't done. 14:48, September 5, 2010 (UTC) #::True but then again people Like loopholes. See the discussion on State Council/Cabinet. I kinda like it so I might switch my vote. Marcus Villanova WLP 14:58, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # ... 003. Ocean and Fishing Act # Parts of the Lovian ocean are protected under the statute of natural reserve ## An ocean can only be declared a natural reserve by the National Park Service ### When it is endangered or likely to become endangered within years ### When it is of unique importance to the existence of the wildlife ## All fishing and fun diving is prohibited in these reserves ## The National Park Service is responsible for these reserves # Fishing quota are introduced by the Department of Industry, Agriculture and Trade ## Fishing quota can be imposed by the department ### To protect certain species from extinction ### To maintain the populations high enough ## No fishing is allowed if the species is endangered or likely to become so within years ## Limited fishing is allowed if the population is likely to slink under the average ## No prohibition can be imposed if none of the above mentioned conditions are met Voting This bill needs a 50% majority to pass. Please vote. 08:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC) PRO # 08:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # ! Yea wildlife shall be protected! Marcus Villanova WLP 14:14, September 5, 2010 (UTC) # As long as it is about the environment I agree. Harold Freeman 14:04, September 7, 2010 (UTC) # For the "spellingerrorless' bill of course JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 15:35, September 7, 2010 (UTC) # 10:48, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # Edward Hannis 00:06, September 29, 2010 (UTC) # ... CONTRA # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 08:24, September 6, 2010 (UTC) # ... ABSTENTION # Sorry, there are some language errors and so in the bill. This should go back to first chamber to be completely fine; 17:49, September 5, 2010 (UTC) #:It has been there for like a month. If the only issue is spelling/grammar we can alter the bill without changing the content, right? 06:07, September 6, 2010 (UTC) #::Yes, but it has to be done. I wasn't able to check this bill. 15:24, September 7, 2010 (UTC) #:::As typical for ones own mistakes I couldn't find them when reading the bill over for the so-maniest time. 06:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC) # ... 005. Offical Residences (2) Okay this was already approved but should be changed Martha made a mistake and left out Newport so i added it. This just needs a quick vote, thanks, Marcus Villanova Walden 20:40, September 10, 2010 (UTC) Proposed recognition I hereby propose the following: :Congress recognizes all the following localities as cities, under the Lovian law: ::Newhaven and Noble City :Congress recognizes all the following localities as towns, under the Lovian law: ::Kinley, Hurbanova, Portland, Sofasi and Train Village :Congress recognizes all the following localities as hamlets, under the Lovian law: ::Adoha, Beaverwick, Clave Rock, East Hills and Novosevensk :Congress recognizes all the following localities as neighborhoods, under the Lovian law: ::Abby Springs, Artista, Bayfield, Bayside, Citizen Corner, Drake Town, Downtown NC, Downtown HU, Downtown KY, Downtown SO, Hightech Valley, Hurket-on-Kings, Industrial Park, King's Gardens, Little Europe, Little Frisco, Long Road, Malipa, Mandarin Village, Millstreet, Newhaven (neighborhood), Newport, New Town, Old Harbor, Old Port, Pines, The Mall, Trading Quarter, Transcity Pro # Marcus Villanova Walden 20:40, September 10, 2010 (UTC) # 07:49, September 11, 2010 (UTC) # 08:10, September 11, 2010 (UTC) There was no need to copy the full monty though # JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 10:27, September 11, 2010 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:32, September 11, 2010 (UTC) # 10:49, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # 11:38, September 15, 2010 (UTC) # Harold Freeman 13:55, September 15, 2010 (UTC) # Though not really important, I guess it does clarify. Edward Hannis 00:08, September 29, 2010 (UTC) # -- 17:45, October 1, 2010 (UTC) #... Contra #Why needs Plains to be left out? I still don't get it. SjorskingmaWikistad 09:58, September 11, 2010 (UTC) #:Don't know, but I do know that at least one of the neighborhoods could be left out. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:31, September 11, 2010 (UTC) #:Would you like to compromise Sjors? Maybe we could take somthing out On Llamada IRC like making Plains a Hamlet? Marcus Villanova Walden 13:37, September 11, 2010 (UTC) # ... Abstain # ... Yuri or Dimi please add this too the list! and the other law too! Marcus Villanova 19:50, October 1, 2010 (UTC) 014. Cleaning up the Federal Law I would like to divide the Federal Law over several law books. More precise a Social Law Book, an Environmental Law Book, a Criminal Law Book and a Public Law Book. We really need to get some more structure in our law system. An idea of what bill will be located where can be found [[User:Regaliorum/Law|'here']]. Note: there will be no changes to the content of any bill, this is just about some re-ordening. 09:36, September 14, 2010 (UTC) Vote Pro # 09:36, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # I only read what the law books will be about but you wont change the content of anu bills so that doesn't matter right? 10:50, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11:44, September 14, 2010 (UTC) I agree with Alyssa. Though I think the proposed law books of Yuri aren't fully covering all the law stuff we have or need, I think every proposal to make it better organised is good. # JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 12:02, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # 12:53, September 14, 2010 (UTC) Yuri's subdivision looks fine, I must say. I however want to ask the writers of this bill (Yuri, that's you) to fix all references to the former article numbers in every article, as this bill passes. Now, pages about the police system refer to some Article 5 - it's important that these things are changed to "Criminal Law - Article whatever". #:Sure, I'm already busy with the List of laws and will alter all links I can think of. 13:06, September 14, 2010 (UTC) #::That's great. Thanks 13:15, September 14, 2010 (UTC) # Marcus Villanova Walden 20:12, September 14, 2010 (UTC) Really are we up to 14 proposals? Very good yuri! # 11:39, September 15, 2010 (UTC) # Harold Freeman 13:56, September 15, 2010 (UTC) # Viva clearification! SjorskingmaWikistad 12:19, September 18, 2010 (UTC) #... Contra # ... # ... Abstain # -- 17:46, October 1, 2010 (UTC) # ... I will soon officialize some other outcomes after I reorganized the Federal Law. Thank you all for the massive support. 09:52, September 25, 2010 (UTC) 010. Marriage Act # Marriage is an understanding between two parties who voluntary agree to take up certain rights and duties. ## The spouses have the duty to live together in the marital residence. ## The spouses have to be loyal to each other and can not commit adultery. ## The spouses have to offer each other respect, affection and consolation. ## A marriage foresees a minimal autonomy of the spouses; ### Each spouse has the right to perform any job that does not conflict with the interests of the partner. ### Each spouse can open an account or rent a safe on a personal basis if the partner is notified of this. ## A marriage foresees a minimal bond between the spouses; ### Each spouse must bear the marital burdens in accordance to his or her capital and provide the partner with the vital. ### When one spouse makes a debt for the family or the raising of the children, his or her partner is liable for this too. # Marriage can only be solemnized if all of the following conditions are met; ## Both parties are at least 18 years old or have permission of the parents and a legal advisor. ## Both parties agree on a voluntary basis and the volition is not deficient. (meaning not drunk, no coercion or mischief, etc.) ## None of the parties can be already part of a marriage which is still standing. ## The parties are not genetically related in one of the following degrees: ### First degree: between parents and children or between brothers and/or sisters. ### Second degree: aunts and uncles with nephews or nieces. (nephews and nieces is allowed) # The solemnization of a marriage is done in public, before a Lovian governor in the attendance of two witnesses. ## The marriage must be announced to that governor at least five days and maximum two months on beforehand. ## At the public solemnization a marriage contract is signed in which both parties agree to its conditions. # A marriage is considered terminated in each one of the following cases; ## The marriage was not legally solemnized due to the lack of foreseen conditions as defined in article 1.2.1-4 and 1.3. ## One of the partners obtains a cancelation through a lawsuit based on the neglecting of his or her duties by the partner. ### In this case the neglecting partner can be sanctioned to pay financial life support to his or her partner. ### In this case the judge also needs to decide on an arrangement considering the raising of children if any. ## Both partners agree upon the termination and inform the governor of this. ## One of the spouses deceases or is considered missing for more than one year. A normal majority (+50%) is needed. Please note that the approval of this proposal would accompany the creation of a Civil Law Book. 08:45, October 19, 2010 (UTC) Vote Pro # 08:45, October 19, 2010 (UTC) # Edward Hannis 15:14, October 19, 2010 (UTC) # for Gay marraige..in a sense! Marcus Villanova 22:40, October 19, 2010 (UTC) Contra # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:48, October 19, 2010 (UTC) (still voting from conservative viewpoint: women should not be able to break a marriage) # ... Abstain # ... # ... 011. Legal Cohabiting Act # When two or more people live together and share the burdens of this cohabiting they can obtain a legal cohabiting contract. ## A legal cohabiting contract regulates the personal and financial relationship between the cohabitants. ## The cohabitants are completely free with respect to each other and have no personal duties. ## The cohabitants own all the goods they possessed before the legal cohabitant contract solely. ### When a claim of ownership is disputed, proof of this ownership needs to be delivered. ### When a dispute can not be solved due to lack of proof, the ownership is equally distributed. ## A legal cohabiting contract can on top comprise any of the following provisions; ### To make any part of the personal capital and/or future incomes common property. ### To agree on an alternate financial regulation if the contract is terminated. ### To make certain legally binding acts impossible without consent of all partners. # A legal cohabiting contract can be conducted by the agreement of all concerned parties, without a government official. ## The contract has legal power concerning all issues up to the moment it is terminated by any concerned party. ## A legal cohabiting contract can be ratified by the governor on demand of any concerned party. A normal majority (+50%) is needed. Please note that the approval of this proposal would accompany the creation of a Civil Law Book. 08:45, October 19, 2010 (UTC) Vote Pro # 08:45, October 19, 2010 (UTC) # Marcus Villanova 22:40, October 19, 2010 (UTC) # ... Contra # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:48, October 19, 2010 (UTC) (still voting from conservative viewpoint) # Edward Hannis 15:16, October 19, 2010 (UTC) I see no need for this. # ... Abstain # ... # ... 012. Parenthood Act # Biological parenthood of children inside marriage: ## The person who gave birth to a child is considered the mother; this is derived from the birth certificate. ## The male spouse of the mother, if any, is under normal conditions suspected to be the father of the child. ### This suspicion can be contested; #### By the mother within a year after the child's birth. #### By the man within a year after being notified of the fatherhood. #### By the child itself within four years after reaching the age of eighteen. ### This suspicion can be legally recognized by the suspected father; #### With consent of the mother or legal guardian if the child is younger than fifteen years old. #### With consent of the mother or legal guardian and the child if the child is between fifteen and eighteen. #### With consent of the child if the child is at least eighteen years old. # Biological parenthood of children outside marriage: ## The person who gave birth to a child is considered the mother; this is derived from the birth certificate. ## The fatherhood of children outside of marriage can be recognized; ### With consent of the suspected father and the mother or legal guardian if the child is younger than fifteen years old. ### With consent of the suspected father, mother or legal guardian and the child if the child is between fifteen and eighteen. ### With consent of the suspected father and the child if the child is at least eighteen years old. ### By any interested party through a lawsuit. # Legal parenthood through adoption: ## Adoption is a procedure in which an individual takes up parenthood of a child of which he or she is not a biological parent. ## Adoption gives the guardian the same rights and obligations towards the child as if the guardian was the biological parent. ## An adoption is only valid before the Lovian law if declared as such by court. ## An adoption can be performed by; ### Two people who are joined in marriage. ### Two people who have a legal cohabiting contract. ### An individual, wether married or not. ## To become a parent through adoption you must; ### Be socially and psychologically stabile, guaranteed through standardized tests. ### Be at least 20 years old and at least 10 years older than the child you want to adopt. ### Have permission of your partner when you are married or have a cohabiting contract. ## A child can only be adopted if it is younger than eighteen years old. ### If older than twelve, the consent of the child is needed. A normal majority (+50%) is needed. Please note that the approval of this proposal would accompany the creation of a Civil Law Book. 08:45, October 19, 2010 (UTC) Vote Pro # 08:45, October 19, 2010 (UTC) # ... Contra # --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:51, October 19, 2010 (UTC) (still voting from conservative viewpoint: 3.4.2 and 3.4.3) # ... Abstain # JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 08:57, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:What's the matter Jon, you don't like it? 09:07, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::It says; the two people, it does no however say "a man and a woman", as it should. Dr. Magnus 09:12, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::I don't think Jon will mind. He's progressive. 09:22, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::The gap of 15 years? Explain JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 09:43, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::You mean the part that says you need to be at least 15 years older than the child you seek to adopt? From psychological point of view it is not all that well to have a 20-year old raise a 12 year old. I admit the number is kinda 'came to me at the moment' but there better be some minimal gap. 09:48, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::A 20 year old is 8 years older then a 12 year old so he could not adopt. Dr. Magnus 09:49, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::I would like to lower the gap for 5 years, I know their must be some sort of a gap, but not 15 years JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 09:53, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::8 would be minimum, cause you can only adopt lower than 18 since 25. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:55, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::I am in favour of the 15 year gap. You adopt children, not siblings. Dr. Magnus 09:56, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::I like 8 already actually! JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 09:57, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::::Can most people agree on 8? We need to pick a number. Harold Freeman 09:58, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::::15 is way better. I would not like my parent to be the age of my brother :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 09:59, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::::We can integrate a number, and include an interval in which the case needs to be investigated JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 10:00, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::The age gap of at least 15 years is very important. Also, a relationship with an adopted child should officialy be made illegal and incestuous (like the relationship with Woody Allen with his wife's adopted daughter). We should have a more clear law forbidding this and setting the age gap to 15 in all cases. Dr. Magnus 10:03, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::::If you can't get children, and you want to adopt someone of the age 12-16, you have to fucking wait until 30, that's quite long JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 10:06, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::People who can't get children usually don't adopt kids that old; they want to have the experience of raising a kid to adulthood rather then taking in a kid who has already been raised by someone else and is nearly adult. There is also always the ability of taking in foster children; you take care of a (older) child but do not legally adopt it. Dr. Magnus 10:16, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::So I'll abstain JON THE DUDE JOHNSON 10:18, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #::::Or vote contra, of course. Dr. Magnus 10:21, October 19, 2010 (UTC) #:::::Note: I changed the minimal age and the minimal age gap to the discussed number(s). Please keep such remarks for the First Chamber in the future, it was open for comments for over two months. 14:39, October 19, 2010 (UTC) # For the time being, I abstain. Until marriages and cohabitation contracts are passed, this cannot be passed. You can't refer to something that doesn't exist yet in a bill. Edward Hannis 15:21, October 19, 2010 (UTC)